Who will partake of it, and what is the nature of the eternal torment? 1. [Discourse given on 20 January 1895.] Is Jesus the Only Redeemer? 14:1519). They have said things much stranger and I am sure you know of them. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God-banished entirely from his presence. With the exception of those who left the church and later rejoined, every other former Mormon left the church because they believed it is not true. To become a church member, baptism and confirmation are required. 20:14), or the outer darkness (Matt. Clearly fire is used as a metaphor for sufferingnot a literal fire but a state of misery. Alma the Younger contributed even more insight on the second death when he gave the wicked people of Ammonihah a detailed description of the fate of those who harden their hearts against the word of God: Then if our hearts have been hardened, yea, if we have hardened our hearts against the word, insomuch that it has not been found in us, then will our state be awful, for then we shall be condemned. This analysis will first briefly review what we know from the teachings of the Restoration about hell, second death, the lake of fire and brimstone, and outer darkness. Mormon Wiki, for example has a pretty specific definition of who doesnt go there but lacks any citations: Sons of Perdition as those few souls who have been born on this earth who have been made partakers of Gods power, yet suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy God by denying the Holy Spirit after having received it, denying the Only Begotten Son and put him to an open shame. They openly and knowingly fight against God and Christ, having sided with Satan even though they had once tasted of full gospel knowledge by the power of the Holy Ghost.There are those who fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin, because they have not been faithful members of the Church. In contrast, Book of Mormon references to the second death are embedded in sermons that teach it in context with other essential elements of the plan of salvation. 11:3940; 18:13), pains of hell (Jacob 3:1112; Alma 14:6; 26:13; 36:13), chains of hell (Alma 5:7, 910; 12:11; 13:30; 26:14), child of hell (Alma 11:23; 54:11), powers of hell (Alma 48:17), everlasting hell (Hel. has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 358). This is full on rejection of God. Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming . Ah yes, well with clarity like that, why would Jeremy ever doubt them and ask for official sources! The Book of Mormon teaches that only through the Atonement of Christ can one escape the damnation of hell. Jacob testified that without the infinite atonement all mankind would be forever subject to the awful monster, death and hell, and thus would become like the devil and his angels (2 Ne. Your email address will not be published. Mormons believe we existed before coming to Earth. . Here, like John and Samuel, Alma equated the second death with the lake of fire and brimstone. But wait! Death brought a reversal of their conditions wherein the rich man in hell became a beggar, longing for a drop of water from the finger of Lazarus, who was now in heaven, or Abrahams bosom. In the parable Abraham explained the impossibility of receiving his request, because between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence (Luke 16:1926). I have no fear of hell fire, that doesnt exist, but the torment and disappointment of the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstoneso is the torment of man. Then is the time when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire [i.e., overcome or defeated by Christs Atonement]. Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. T F It is practically impossible for those who were human to ever be sent to Outer Darkness. 11:23). Thus ensued the War in Heaven, which resulted in Satan and his followers being cast out of heaven and denied the opportunity of receiving a physical body. However, not once have I ever suspected such a person to be a closet believer in Mormonism. (You are not one of those spirits since you have a mortal body.). And thats why men alone get, I mean need the priesthood. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. The wicked are cast into outer darkness until the time of their resurrection, Alma 40:13-14. When the lights were out and we were on the verge of sleep, our camp counselor took advantage of the moment and endeavored to imprint his teachings upon the minds of his captive audience. Pingback: The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, A Son of Perdition is: [3]. - Wilford Woodruff in a meeting with the apostles, 1893 D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1997) p. 795. . Alma 40. 23:15). Sorry ladies, you cant actually apostatize from the church, I guess (Someone tell Kate Kelly her excommunication is not valid!). 1:18). Horror Short Film "Outer Darkness" | ALTER | Online Premiere 31,262 views Mar 31, 2022 Subscribe to ALTER on YouTube: https://goo.gl/LnXRC3 .more .more 1K Dislike Share Save Description. These pains are similar to the state of suffering experienced by the ungodly who after mortality are assigned to hell. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God-banished entirely from his presence. So, in conclusion, I would have a hard time believing that you or billions of souls as you put will qualify for perdition even while taking Mormon beliefs into account. Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition. You'll need to do a few things to get the most out of your ex-Mormon candle. It clarifies how using an obscure quote does not define LDS doctrines or dogmas. We probably do not want to know how horrible it is just like in this life, some things that are so horrible that happen (especially to children) wed rather not know about it, if possible. The Book of Mormon provides another testament of the reality of a designated place called hell, where the wicked are consigned. It is taught that, in the pre-mortal life, they chose to follow a plan proposed by Satan, rather than that presented by God the Father. Hell is a place prepared for the devil and his angels, D&C 29:37-38. 8:17), and endless hell (Moro. 40 talks in 40 days for General Conference, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (See D&C 76:2835, 4448.) To qualify, a person would not only have to leave the Mormon church but also vehemently speak against it. Jacob identified death and hell as temporal and spiritual death. The term second death refers to spiritual death or separation from God. Another manual states, Baptism is the first saving ordinance of the gospel (see Articles of Faith 1:4). Another name for Outer Darkness is hell. Because of their disobedience, these spirits ended up not receiving bodies, a necessary ingredient to progress to mortality and be qualified for one of the three kingdoms of glory. For example, Alma the Younger was delivered from the intensity of his hellish pain when he cried to the Lord for mercy. Can someone get out of this state of Perdition once they are in it? 3:12), the tares are gathered and burned in the fire (Matt. . The celestial, terrestrial, and telestial are kingdoms of glory. So the prophet, meeting with apostles is clear on this, there are women. New Testament [ edit] Italics in original). That there will also be daughters of Perdition there is no doubt in the minds of the brethren. Also God says no one knows in scripture, so stop asking; but He also said in scripture that He upbraideth not those who have questions and if you ask it shall be opened unto you. The phrases depths of hell, awful hell, sleep of hell, pains of hell, chains of hell, everlasting hell, and endless hell are all unique to the Book of Mormon. Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming. Those who must suffer with Satan for the deeds done in mortality will go with him into outer darkness. By EntropyJustKillUsNow, March 29, 2017 in Social Hall. hell.. But as with anything, that doesnt stop prophets from talking about it like they knew. But suppose, deep down, I do believe the church is true. If you want to make the point that Mormon Prophets have said some weird stuff, I am all for it. It occurs in a doctrinal discussion Alma conducted with his son Corianton. And if they be evil they are consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of misery and endless torment, from whence they can no more return; therefore they have drunk damnation to their own souls. There are possible characteristics of a son of perdition. According to the churchs website: The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. You have to be pretty bad to go to the Teresita's kingdom, and horrendous to go to outer darkness. Italics in original). The manual Gospel Principles sheds additional light: There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism). Clearly you dont know what is and is not doctrine, and are trying to throw shade. Hell is outer darkness; it is the lake of fire; and it is the second death. So only a prophet can put the matter to rest well, thats nice that Brigham said there were no women, Joseph F. said there were no women, but Wilford Woodruff said there was no debate and there must be women. (Elder Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine Lecture, #2, Brigham Young University, 1967.). Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God banished entirely from his presence (Doctrines of Salvation2:220). 25:30). The apostle John saw the final judgment and wrote of the destiny of the wicked: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. He is damned by mortification and is his own condemner and tormenter. Bad as they may suffer, and awful as their punishment may be, they are not among that group which is to suffer the eternal death and banishment from all influence concerning the power of God (Conference Reports, October 1958, 21). Also, Joseph confuses things further by combining words typically used with Hell to describe outer darkness: A sinner has his own mind and his own mind damns him. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God banished entirely from his presence (Ibid.). And their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever (Mosiah 3:2427; emphasis added). A) Never had a body B) Did evil things in this world C) Never joined the LDS Church D) All of the above are true. Many of the apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He stated that converts made by the Pharisees became twofold more the child of hell than their teachers (Matt. While many Latter-day Saints bristle at the doctrine of hell (i.e., How could a loving God send His children to such a place?), they may have not considered the fact that these spirits were never given the chance to have a physical body because of the wrong choice they made in the preexistence. But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord. Their theology was turned upside down! The Book of Mormon contains one reference to outer darkness. 16:811)meaning to be left with those who would partake of that permanent hell reserved only for those who, as Jacob stated, are filthy still.. 67, LDS Church Archives. This website is not owned by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (sometimes called the Mormon or LDS Church). We found these portrayals to be highly inaccurate. Chapter 40. Utterly turn against god. 12:16), hell which hath no end (1 Ne. 4:32; 3 Ne. This is the choice of an individual to reject God. The question is, what exactly does full knowledge entail? The apostle James taught that the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity . Mormon doctrines are often contradictory and inconsistent. The filthy would be more miserable to dwell with God than to dwell in hell, Morm. 6:8). . Outer Darkness - Social Hall - Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board. [DS 2:225.] So why dont we get outer darkness too? Required fields are marked *. Banishment into outer darkness. Rev. 9:710, 19, 26). Now go take a nap and rest well! Even if I did, I still am not eligible for outer darkness. For many years, those who have forfeited their membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may have been told by other Mormons that they were Sons of Perdition destined for Outer Darkness. And since we know that prophets speaking define it, this is the definition we should use. It also adds insight that, when blended with other essential doctrines, offers a more complete understanding of the plan of salvation. Temporary abode of the wicked. They will not have a kingdom of glory. We believe that after the final judgment there are four places to which a person may be sent. Which means that really, no one knows anything about this. The prophet Alma described the disposition of those in outer darkness: And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evilfor behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their houseand these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil (Alma 40:13; cf. We will, however, address some of the portrayals of other LDS beliefs and practices that were depicted in this episode. Smith told a general conference audience: I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. This page was last edited on 17 September 2010, at 20:26. the man was silent (Matt 22:12); therefore, the king said: "Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Each differing in Glory but all great places to go. It is provided through Christ's atonement and received by personal faith in Christ as Savior and Lord. Provo, UT 84602 20:1314). Wilford Woodruff in a meeting with the apostles, 1893 D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1997) p. 795. Jacob taught that the lake of fire is not a literal fire but a figurative representation of torment: And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end (2 Ne. He called the Pharisees and scribes vipers and questioned, How can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matt. Yet I an certainly exempt from outer darkness, no questions asked. It is true that the only mortals who had once been members are eligible to become sons of perdition, a fact that may worry some former Mormons who wonder if they might be destined for outer darkness. Even if a person had once been a Latter-day Saint, Kimball said it still was practically impossible for a human to become a son of perdition: The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 123) (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Religion 324 and 325, p. 161). You are taking quotes that are not Mormon Doctrine. 801-422-6975. They go too far, and the Spirit leaves themYou cant renew them to repentancyou cannot save them. (Joseph Smith Jr., King Follett Discourse). It is impossible for those who never joined Mormonism to become sons of perdition. A lot of people wanted a source on that. Delving into the interesting bits about any religion to stem from Joseph Smith Jr. Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor). I wonder if the language is tripping people up here. Sons of perdition include (1) those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality and (2) those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God. Grant Building Over the 30 years in Christian ministry, I have met many former Mormons who once believed in Mormonism, but none has ever confessed that they still believe Mormonism to be true. Also, you can read this too. In Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus contrasted the afterlife state of the lowly Lazarus with that of the self-absorbed rich man. The kingdom that is not a kingdom of glory is called outer darkness. Are the devils before the world created sons of perdition? Brigham Young University Professor Larry E. Dahl reported: The word hell appears sixty-two times in the text of the Book of Mormon. They believe that they are mortal men capable of mistakes just like the rest of us. The opposition gospel twists the title of Adversary into a positive thing. 8:13). All missionaries are doing is trying to upgrade people to a premium plan of ruling over planets and polygamy. This isnt something like going out and breaking their rule of no drinking. . John the Revelator heard Christ proclaim that he possessed the keys of hell and of death (Rev. For most, outer darkness, the lake of fire, and the second death have an end, but for the sons of perdition these states continue eternally. Some Christians have believed the lake of fire John spoke of to be a literal lake. They must have had a fullness of knowledge; a testimony which cannot be destroyed. Add an RSC shortcut to this device's Homescreen, In the menu, scroll past any icons and tap. Clear as mud. Polygamy with tons more men than women sounds ill-thought out. (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. So lets turn to that bastion of all wisdom that Jeremy Runnells was blamed for not believing and turning to with questions: FAIRMormon: The church has no official position on this issue. The Sons of Perdition are those who have lived as mortal men and women on the earth, have had the heavens opened to them and received a certain knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, and then have rejected the Savior, "having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame" (Doctrine and Covenants 76:34-35; see also Doctrine and Covenants 76:3133, 3637). 12:22). Just because Hitler, Mao, and Stalin along with Judas Iscariot (as mentioned above) never became Latter-day Saints apparently provides them with a much higher privilegea life in the telestial kingdom over those who once believed but left the true fold, kicking and screaming in their continued fight against the restored church of Jesus Christ. Return to the Crash Course Mormonism Index. They are the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, the telestial kingdom, and outer darkness. They once held membership in the church (through baptism/confirmation); They had full knowledge of their apostasy from the true and restored church of Jesus Christ; They continue to fight against the LDS Church despite their knowledge. Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first deaththat spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual. See Michael Hicks, Joseph Smith, W.W. Phelps, and the Poetic Paraphrase of The Vision, Journal of Mormon History 20 (Fall 1994) 2: 63-84 for discussion of authorship of this poem.). J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881. Johns references to the second death testify of its existence but do not offer any explanatory information that instructs those readers who do not already understand the doctrine. Ellipsis mine). 18:8)? When I bring this issue up with some Latter-day Saints, I sometimes get defensive arguments. Following this introduction will be a discussion of the usage of these termsfirst in the New Testament, then in the Book of Mormon. This objection is inconsistent since Mormonism teaches that Lucifer's demon forces, which are clearly destined for "outer darkness," make up one-third of God's "children" (Bruce R. McConkie,Mormon Doctrine, p. 195). Continuous suffering, however, is reserved only for sons of perditionthose who are still unclean after the final judgment. ", Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Outer_darkness&oldid=1136269337, This page was last edited on 29 January 2023, at 15:14. 20:1315). Through his Atonement, Resurrection, and ministry in the spirit world, Christ provided a bridge by which repentant souls could cross the gulf from hell to spiritual freedom. So apostates from the church are clearly included in this list. About 74 B.C. 34:3435; note Almas repetitive use of the word state in Alma 40:1112; see also D&C 101:9091; 133:7073). Ray L. Huntington and Terry B. While Christianity affirms that many people who were created by God will perish in hell, Mormonism also espouses this . While John could be referring to the sons of perdition in this passage, the specific sins he identified are characteristic of those who will suffer in hell but, after experiencing their part in the lake of fire, will be released from their torment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:10312). Those who followed Lucifer in his rebellion in the premortal life and those who in mortality sin against the Holy Ghost are sons of perdition. For those who once were baptized and confirmed into Mormonism, what is your status? The first example would be spirits from the preexistence who sided with Lucifer rather than Jesus at the Council in Heavenwhere it was decided who would become the Savior of the World. For example, John saw the judgment in vision and wrote that death and hell delivered up the dead . While this is true, please define Mormon Doctrine before saying I did not quote Mormon Doctrine. These men and women cannot be redeemed, and will be the only ones who will suffer the second death. ). 8:1112). Later in the same discourse Alma blended the doctrines of the Fall, agency, and the second death together as an admonition to keep the commandments of God (see Alma 12:3137). Therefore, they have drunk out of the cup of the wrath of God, which justice could no more deny unto them than it could deny that Adam should fall because of his partaking of the forbidden fruit; therefore, mercy could have claim on them no more forever. to become a son of perdition? But to pass it off as a belief of an entire Church, organization and people is wrong. Banishment from the presence of God. The conclusion: You (former Mormon), despite being baptized into this church, are not a son of perdition! Also, Mormons believe in three Heavens. Severe punishment for eternity, reserved for Satan and his demons as well as the sons of perdition, those humans who once embraced Mormonism and left to fight against the faith, even though they knew Mormonism was true. Even the wicked of the earth who never knew the power of God, after they have paid the price of their sinningfor they must suffer the excruciating torment which sins will bringshall at last come forth from the prison house. simonet funeral home stillwater obituaries, 1976 chevy c10 curb weight, harris county republican party candidates 2022,

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